'The end for him': Lapid on why Netanyahu won't do everything to bring hostages back

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu isn't doing everything he can to bring the hostages back because it would end his term and his time in power would be over, Opposition leader and Yesh Atid chief Yair Lapid said in an interview with Maariv on Monday.

Lapid shared his insights about his complex relationship with the prime minister, the role of the opposition, and his late father, Tommy Lapid.

Why doesn't the Attorney-General declare Netanyahu unfit?

"There’s no such thing as ‘good that you asked,’ it’s simply not possible to declare Netanyahu unfit to serve - we checked this with every legal expert in the country.

"It’s fun to say, but it’s not going to happen because it’s legally impossible. All that will happen if we go to the High Court and demand it is that the court will be forced to reject it again, just like last time, when it was 11–0—and by doing that, we actually made him more legitimate, not less.”

“There’s this process - you go to the most moderate legal expert you know, and he tells you it’s impossible. Then you say, ‘I’ll check a few more opinions,’ and by the seventh legal opinion you’ve consulted—people known to be radical legal thinkers - even they tell you, ‘There will be no declaration that he's unfit, there’s no legal option right now.’

"The way to remove Benjamin Netanyahu from our lives right now is through the ballot box. That’s also what’s healthiest for Israel’s future, because we’ll have to live here together even the day after.”

Surely you have one good thing to say about Netanyahu.

"He is a wise man."

Don't you think he's sturdy? He passed the oath in October, a medical procedure, is in legal proceedings, he's being harassed from every direction, and he's still standing sturdy.

"I don't think he's sturdy. I think it's this desperate clinging to the chair. There's something terribly desperate. It's like he's saying, 'If I'm not here, I'll die' or 'If I'm not here, I'll be in prison.'"

It comes from there? Not from a desire to make a difference?

"There's something I enjoy telling people who are his supporters: 'I know him better than you do.'

"You've met him at best twice at some meeting that he engineered so that he would do well with common folks. I know him - I also knew him socially long before I was in politics, including our families. I also sat with him in war cabinet meetings. You learn a lot about people in cabinets during wartime."

And do you see a change? That this time it’s coming from a place of desperation?

“From 2015 onward, there’s been a decline. I see a man desperately clinging to the position out of fear of his trial and mostly out of fear that the only thing people will remember him for is October 7.”

So why isn't he doing everything he can to get the hostages back?

"Because it's kind of the end for him. It's kind of the end of his term."

What do you say about the torch lighting ceremony [on Independence Day]?

"I gave Einav Zangauker my tickets and seats."

By the way, regarding Einav Zangauker—do you think her actions ultimately hurt her son? She recently claimed that Netanyahu would leave her son behind.

"Einav, and she's not the only one, will know to say to herself, 'I did everything I could.' We're also doing everything we can so that they know that if we detect even a millimeter that someone is trying to delay Matan Zangauker's return from captivity, we will really pursue him for that, there will be no forgiveness for that."

What’s your opinion on the affidavit by Ronen Bar, the former head of the Shin Bet?

“There’s something interesting in Netanyahu’s response that caught my eye. In section 58, when you put something in section 58 of an official document, it’s because you really hope no one will notice it’s even there. But I read everything. In section 58, he says that in his opinion, the Qatargate investigation happened because Ronen Bar thought he would be fired. Now, you’re the Prime Minister of Israel - what do you mean ‘in your opinion’? What are we dealing with here - feelings? Or do you have facts to back that up?”

“This thing he wrote - on the most critical issue - has only one purpose: to distract us from talking about Qatargate. To stop us from talking about the fact that an Arab state that supports terror paid big money to the people closest to Netanyahu. And the reason they don’t want us talking about it isn’t because of you or me. The reason is because it kills them with their own base. In their base, they don’t forgive the idea that an Arab state that supports terror is involved in this. Qatargate is the most serious security scandal that’s ever happened here."

So how is he getting stronger [politically] after the election in October? 

"He's not getting stronger, in the end, the current coalition in every poll for two consecutive years doesn't pass 48, they'll lose.

There is criticism that your voice isn't being heard enough.

"I have two answers, and neither of them is good enough, because I need to break through that. Statistics show that 87% of the reports on the political space in the Israeli media were about the coalition, and only 13% about the opposition. And even in the 13% about the opposition, half of the time, they talked about not hearing the opposition.

"The second answer is more complex. I'm constantly in a dilemma: on the one hand, I want to scream, and on the other hand, I don't want to end up sounding like them. There's this sentence they tell me: 'If Bibi were the head of the opposition now, he would burn the country down.'

I don't want another Bibi. I'm not interested. I think it's part of our disaster – the way we talk to each other."

Let's talk about Channel 12, which doesn't really give you much credit.

"I tell them that sometimes. I say to them, 'I don’t even remember when I was last on your side and you were on mine.' There’s something about someone saying, 'Prime Minister? We were just at the coffee corner together, and now I have to call you ‘sir’?"

Do you want to be prime minister?

"Yes."

How do you fix the polls?

"I'm doing something. Not everything I do is seen from the outside."

Do you think you can achieve your goal of being prime minister?

"Yes, I'm doing my best."

How would you manage the war differently if you were prime minister?

"First, I would announce that there is no draft evasion during wartime. What is happening is that this government is losing the trust of soldiers, and this is reflected on the ground. Second, I would define what should happen the day after in Gaza. What is our problem? You can't win this war, or any war, if you don't define an end picture."

What about Netanyahu continuing the war for his seat - do you agree with that?

"I won't get into this whole Israeli game of guessing what he thinks. I know what the actual situation is. On December 11, 2023, in Hanukkah, Netanyahu gave a speech in Haifa and said, 'We are one step away from complete victory.' Two months after the war began, he informs us 'one step away from victory.' What complete victory? Who did you defeat?" 

"And the reason is that in the end, you can't fool everyone all the time, and especially not ourselves. This government's problem is not politics; this government's problem is what's called reality. And in reality, the supermarket cart costs much more, you're not winning the war in Gaza, and you haven't offered Israeli society any solution. And all you do is continue to defend this disgraceful evasion during a war, and continue with the war, and don't return the hostages, and don't establish a commission of inquiry. By the way, one of the reasons this government is holding its ground now is because they know that if there are elections, they will go home and never come back."

Do you think that? It doesn't look like that in the polls.

"Exactly. The division within the opposition is changing."

Do you miss your father, Tommy Lapid?

All the time. Now more than ever.

Why?

"Because it’s that kind of period. Dad was a child of the Holocaust, and the State of Israel was the answer to the Holocaust. It's no coincidence that I was the first person to say on October 7, 'This is the worst day for the Jewish people since the Holocaust' – which later became a cliché. But it's because it was already sitting inside me, shouting, 'Look what happened here, look what happened here. Jews are being killed again because they are Jews.'"

How do you describe your father? 

"Dad was larger than life. He would hug, kiss, and cry; he was the crybaby in the house – at funerals, at movies. Everything we experienced with him was the opposite of his public image. We have a round table in our house, and he would sit down and say, 'I'm at the head of the table.' We would tell him, "Dad, there's no head of the table for a round table." He would reply, 'Where I sit – that's the head of the table.'"

And you?

"I'm exactly the opposite. I'm very restrained because I had a wild father. In many ways, I'm the reaction to that. We're always basically either like or opposite."

What would he say about what is happening in the country today?

"He would be furious. He would say it is unforgivable. We are now sitting in the week between Holocaust Remembrance Day and Remembrance Day. Dad was a child of the Holocaust, and the State of Israel was the answer to the Holocaust."

Do you think he would have been disappointed that you didn't succeed in overthrowing this government? Or would he be proud of you?

"Dad said: 'The question is whether you tried.' I mean, not the results but the path. At the end of May 2008, on the ninth floor of Ichilov Hospital, when he was already at the end, we were watching a Maccabi Tel Aviv basketball game. He and I are in the hospital room; he's already connected to every possible tube. He refuses to receive treatment."

"And we watch the game, and he, because he's completely honest with himself, says to me: 'You'll see the rematch alone' - as if to say, I’m going to die this week. And then we stay up all night talking, just the two of us. At some point, he says to me, 'Look, I want you to write on my tombstone - did the best he could.' I tell him, 'Dad, that's nothing.' He says, 'No, you don't understand. The best thing you can say about a man is that he did the best he could.' And that's what's written on his tombstone."

And you—what would you want written?

"I think I’ll steal his."

Do you think you're doing your best?

"Yes. It doesn't always work out. The power of this statement is that the question is not whether you succeeded, but whether you really did everything possible – you turned over every stone, and when you failed, you tried again."

What do you regret in your political career? Is there anything you’re sorry about?

“So many people are constantly busy telling me what I did wrong—why should I help them? I’m not someone who looks back. These are psychological mechanisms—you’re either that kind of person or you’re not. I’m not. I have goals ahead.”

Do you think that an opposition can overthrow a government at all?

"It hasn't happened to date. Very rare. I mean, an opposition by definition, what it does is not overthrow governments in general, but creates the conditions in which governments fall."

How do you respond to criticism?

"I completely understand that. I also don't respond to criticism from people I'm not interested in or haven't addressed before."

Do you think there is substance to it [criticism]?

"I can't argue with anger because I feel it too."

Are you angry?

"Yes."

Who are you angry at? Are you angry at yourself?

"Yes, sometimes."

Are you worried about your granddaughter and her future?

"I'm worried because she’s one year old. The first year in the life of my beloved granddaughter, Naomi. In her first year of life, she experienced a suicide bomber near the house, because they live in south Tel Aviv, ballistic missile attacks from Iran, another four, five, six missile attacks from Yemen, and more. What kind of first year is that for a baby? She doesn’t understand, she has no fear. But her mother describes how she runs with her to the shelter, or when they’re outside – what then? They stand under a tree, at the entrance to a building. That’s no way for a one-year-old to live."

Let’s talk about your relationship with your daughter, Yaeli, who is autistic. How do you communicate with her?

"Yaeli, the love of my life. She doesn’t speak."

How do you communicate with her?

"With our eyes, a few signs. I understand her. And there’s something amazing she’s been doing in recent years—she’s in a writing class, expressive writing. And suddenly she made it clear to us that she knows how to tell us things we never imagined she knew. And of course, we realized she understands and sees much more than we thought. For years, we didn’t talk about it. Within the community, there was a heated debate. When we didn’t talk about it—out of concern for her privacy—people said we were hiding it. We said, 'No, we’re not hiding anything, we’re not ashamed, we just don’t feel it’s everyone’s business.'"

"And there was a moment when Lihi and I sat down and talked, and I said, 'Let’s open this up,' because we have the ability to make things easier for others by bringing the topic out into the open. People won’t feel it’s something to be ashamed of. People won’t feel like they can’t talk about it.

"I want to say something that, in my eyes, is beautiful about Israeli society: 90% of the interactions I’ve had with Israelis regarding my daughter were positive, warm, and embracing. Yaeli, like many autistic people, if she sees fries on another table, she’ll steal them. Now, the average Israeli, when a kid suddenly shows up and takes his fries—he’s not into it."

And it happened to you?

A thousand times. And what we did—very quickly, we learned this from experience—I would say to them, “Sorry, she’s autistic, she doesn’t know it’s not allowed.” And it’s amazing to see what happens when you give people a chance to be good. Because I’m telling you, it’s amazing—they always say, 'Then take the fries.'"

So where has all that goodness gone now, with the families of the hostages who’ve become enemies of the state?

“It’s been buried under political poison. It’s terrible. Part of what we must not lose – we need to get back to that. Now, we have to choose who we are and what we are, and how we’re going to keep living here together. That’s why I’m cautious—and within the protest movement, there are a lot of people who think I’m too cautious – about burning all the bridges.”

To sum up, how do you see our situation as a society, especially during the week between Holocaust Remembrance Day and Independence Day?

"I truly believe that the real State of Israel is not what we’re experiencing now. The real State of Israel is one that shows compassion and kindness, like when I saw Yaeli take someone’s fries and I said, ‘Sorry, she’s autistic,’ and he said, ‘Take the fries, it’s okay.’ I think we need to go back to that. It’s not such a complicated task. Yes, we have enemies, but we can deal with them."

"Yes, we have problems, and we can address them. But first and foremost, there needs to be a state here that works for the people who keep it alive—people who work, pay taxes, serve. And it needs to go back to being what it truly is. That’s who we really are. We’ve just forgotten it. And to get there, we need to go to the elections and win them. I know how to do that. It won’t be simple, it won’t be easy, it won’t take two days—but I know how to do it."